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What makes a machine lose power?

Posted by coreypopp on 08/01/10


Sorry if there are similar topics already posted but I have some questions that I hope someone can answer for me. I just received 2 machines(that I waited quite a long time for) from a well known builder/artist. They look to beautifully built, quality parts and well put together. They sound very smooth and consistent, (at first), but after running for 30 min or so they start to lose their smooth sound and lose their power. I realized a slight turn of the contact screw or slightly changing the angle of the contact cures the problem for 5 to 10 min then it does it again and I continue the cycle of fiddling with the contact screw. Another artist in the shop has had similar issues with a different machine as well. Other than the fact I'm upset that a machine I waited this long for runs like this, I just want to know what could cause this in general since another artist in the shop has this problem with completely different machines. The machines I got run a little higher voltage than I'm used to. 10 to 12 volts. But they run smooth and sound good for a little while. Im so confused as to what is happening to make it do that. They are brand new so it cant be carbon build up, and its not bogging down from ink build up. It has done it with different needle set ups, no more than 2 rubber bands, and I use an RCA connection that I've triple checked for clean contact and proper soldering at the lugs. Sorry for the long post but any advice on this issue would be greatly appreciated.



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RE:What makes a machine lose power?

Posted by Joshua Carlton on 08/01/10


I am pretty sure these are my machines. You say that a coworker has the same thing with different machines? I wonder if its something with the power in your studio? I use the same machines daily (have for years) and don't expierience a loss of power.
If it is my machines please let me have a look at them in case there is a problem on my end. I will send you two new ones,when you get them send the others back so you dont have to wait so long again (we got seriously behind on shipping because of some family medical issues) I am anxious to see if they lose power in my studio.-J


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RE:What makes a machine lose power?

Posted by T on 08/01/10


Ive had that problem with one machine, and its pretty damn strange. Its a time machine Gforce (ok most people are thinking it doesint sound too strange)BUT after the original build i rebuilt it 2 times, and i know wtf im doing. And no matter what i did it would always display that same problem !? ran smooth for a short time then got all shitty, i did it as a liner, b&g shader and a super long and slow color pecker...does not make sence to me.. i used the same quality gear ive used for many other rebuilds that have operated flawlessly for many years...i cant figure it out, not that i really care anymore.

on a side note, i have a danny fowler machine,liner, from 1999 thats still all original except for the springs, and it works better then any liner ive ever owned and that list includes cain, soba, seth, fk, tramp, and even ones ive built myself...and thats even more of a mystery, a capacitor thats lasted 11+years ? no mushrooming from the coils and barely a scratch on the a bar, same contact screw, wtf !? it must have 5000 hours on it by now lol. Its never ever, not once skipped a beat. I dont even know what model it is lol...its black powder coated, 2 piece frame (just has a adjustable spring deck that ive never touched)

Anyone by chance know what this machine is by my limited description ?


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RE:What makes a machine lose power?

Posted by ChrisDowning on 08/01/10


One of the dudes I work with has an old time machine that sounds kinda like that man. His however is a piece of crap. Maybe all the magic got put into the one you've got and thats why the rest of those time machines suck. I had one of those G-force time machine pieces of crap a few years back, couldn't keep that thing running decent for more than a day or 2 without having to adjust this or that. Man it was horrible. The sad excuse for coils that come on those things is a big part of the problem. I really don't understand why being fully adjustable is a selling point, just means you gotta fuck with them all the time... Never again.

The original quest... Make sure it's the machines not something else

Can you replicate it with any other machines you've got?

Make sure it is not the clip cord or power supply. Maybe run them at your house or ideally on a battery to rule out bad power at the shop.

You just want to be reasonably sure the problem is with the machines and not something else in your set up.

You're best bet really is to send it back to the builder you got them from if they are willing to take care of them for you. Especially if you waited a long time and just got them, the more you dick around with a machine the more you wipe away the original intent of the builder. Sucks to drop all that dough on paper weights.

I'm sure whoever built them for you wants you to be happy with them.

Hope you get it worked out!


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RE:What makes a machine lose power?

Posted by Gaston - FK Irons on 08/01/10


Usually when this happens is related to a faulty cap or a coil that has been wrapped with a bad wire. I've found that some copper wire can have irregular enamel insulation causing the enamel to melt as soon as the coil warms up (like if the enamel is thinner in some parts, almost gone) shorting out between the wraps.

I caught this issue with a batch of spools I bought. Luckily I noticed that in a test coil I did for myself. I remember the wire being an uniform red color.

But I would say that a bad capacitor is the most common reason for this issue and some times the builder can caught this issue as it can happen after several hours of running the machine.


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RE:What makes a machine lose power?

Posted by shadow on 08/01/10


This might be way off, but what kind of ink are you using? 30 min is about the time some thicker inks start drying out in the tube tip and slow machines of all kinds down quite a bit. Just wondering cuz if you and your co-worker are using the same ink, different machines; then there is obviously some constant in the equation. Maybe the power like Josh said, or the capacitor like Gaston said.


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RE:What makes a machine lose power?

Posted by coreypopp on 08/01/10


I'll get a multi meter in here and check current of the shops outlets just for the hell of it but i doubt that is the issue. As far as ink goes, that could be a viable reason in some cases but they do it even when completely rinsed out. I did think of that but thanks for the ideas. Coil wire or cap sounds more likely. The builder of my 2 machines has been great and is going to get things fixed for me so definetely no complaint there, as far as the other artist's machines we'll have to check the coils and cap issue. Thanks guys for the response.


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RE:What makes a machine lose power?

Posted by briann on 08/01/10


one time ive got some joshua carlton machines in my hand to buy one but when i run the machines i quit
this machines dont have power,drag to much the skin with a short stroke and a lower duty around 38-40% even the color machine
i like is work but is machines i never buy it


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RE:What makes a machine lose power?

Posted by Gustav on 08/01/10


I think we shall ignore briann as he has come up with too much shit in the past. I think it is nice from Joshua to stand behing his product and try to solve some of the problems that pop up from time to time and most of us regard as just part of the job as long as it does not happen too often.


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RE:What makes a machine lose power?

Posted by T on 08/01/10


im all for ignoring brian, everything he says is wacky and i just cant blame it on bad english anymore.. ..but how do you know his machines drag in the skin before you bought it ? did he let ya try it before you bought it ? if he did thats pretty awesome of him. personally i get more use out of machines that run smooth and hit soft.. its all technique....more needle, less volts = smooooth color...its all about how many circles you do before you wipe...i dont even know why im saying this here lol.. nevermind.


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RE:What makes a machine lose power?

Posted by Mystic on 08/01/10


Hi coreypopp
If it's a machine issue it maybe the machine is drawing more amps then the power supply is putting out, solution increase the amps, you won't hurt the machine as it will only draw what it needs. The coils may be getting too hot, this will cause a reduction in efficiency, (power) playing with the points may give them time to cool a little so it would appear to fix the problem but in reality it's too much voltage going through them. It could be a capacitor problem, replace with a bi-ploar capacitor so you won't have to worry about clipcord polarity or solder 2 directional capacitors together (dimples facing out) this works like a bi-polar capacitor.
If it is not one of these issues it could be a supply issue, very rare. Had an artist who's machines were heating up at certain times, the clip cord spring was glowing red hot! but not when he used the machines elsewhere, turned out the shop wiring was all shonky and when the shop next door (Cafe) cranked up it's ovens the problem started, was some 3 phase power mixed in somewhere, no one knows. The landlord would not fix the problem so he moved shop and has had no problems since.


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RE:What makes a machine lose power?

Posted by Mystic on 08/01/10


Hi coreypopp
If it's a machine issue it maybe the machine is drawing more amps then the power supply is putting out, solution increase the amps, you won't hurt the machine as it will only draw what it needs. The coils may be getting too hot, this will cause a reduction in efficiency, (power) playing with the points may give them time to cool a little so it would appear to fix the problem but in reality it's too much voltage going through them. It could be a capacitor problem, replace with a bi-ploar capacitor so you won't have to worry about clipcord polarity or solder 2 directional capacitors together (dimples facing out) this works like a bi-polar capacitor.
If it is not one of these issues it could be a supply issue, very rare. Had an artist who's machines were heating up at certain times, the clip cord spring was glowing red hot! but not when he used the machines elsewhere, turned out the shop wiring was all shonky and when the shop next door (Cafe) cranked up it's ovens the problem started, was some 3 phase power mixed in somewhere, no one knows. The landlord would not fix the problem so he moved shop and has had no problems since.


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RE:What makes a machine lose power?

Posted by brian on 08/01/10


ignore if you want i dont care
i dont need to run the machine on skin to know how much he drags ,i just need to get them on my hand
about smooth machines ,less volts,smooth colors
sometimes people confuse smoothness with no power machines,is good for this kind of blendig colors ,not for a solid work that last for years


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RE:What makes a machine lose power?

Posted by Brian Sucks Forum on 08/01/10


Has Brian ever said anything possitive about anything or anybody?? this bozzo dissagrees with just about everything and everybody,,he does like anyting!! brian you suck!!


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RE:What makes a machine lose power?

Posted by coreypopp on 08/01/10


Thank you to everyone that replied with great advice that actually stuck to the topic at hand. Except for Brian that posts things way off topic then gets everyone aggravated.


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RE:What makes a machine lose power?

Posted by shadow on 08/02/10


Yeah, hey Brian? WTF (that's What The Fuck) is your deal, man? You seriously seem like you just say the opposite of anything and everything just to stir shit up! It used to be kind of funny and I thought it would soon stop, but it's getting worse and worse. I think we collectively can't take it anymore. This is a Discussion board, NOT a Debate board. So fuckin get on board or jump overboard, man. But yeah, like a few others said, if it doesn't stop, maybe ignore it and it'll go away? I've never seen that philosophy work in real life, but hey, it's cyberspace, so, who knows?


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RE:What makes a machine lose power?

Posted by brian for prez on 08/02/10


Brian, why do you even bother to comment ? you say the same thing more or less every time ! " if the skin no spraying blood then it not make a good tattoo" guess what dude, your wrong.


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RE:What makes a machine lose power?

Posted by brian on 08/02/10


you dont understand what i mean
i like some works from joshua,but is machines dont have force,that what this topic is related,machines loose power-

but if you like them buy it


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RE:What makes a machine lose power?

Posted by brian on 08/02/10


you can compare joshua machines with soba,or aaron cain, seth ciferrri this is a good machines.
joshua is a good artist but is machines isnt.
or maybe i have bad luck when i get them in my hand,but i try around 6 machines,so..............................


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RE:What makes a machine lose power?

Posted by anthony on 08/02/10


how funny would it be if brian ended up really being nick fucking with everyone.


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RE:What makes a machine lose power?

Posted by T on 08/02/10


lol...i was thinking the same thing earlyer, weird.


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