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Cheyenne hawk machine

Posted by mjollnir9 on 09/25/09


Stumbled across the site for this machine. I am quite happy with the machines I have, and am not in the market for any new ones, especially strange, light-saber majiggies. WTF is this thing? It mentions ink cartridges, and internal resorvoirs. Seems like a DC powered machine, that is just trying to look and act space-age. Anyone know anything about em?



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RE:Cheyenne hawk machine

Posted by r hendrickson on 09/25/09


woah i thought the hawk came and went already


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RE:Cheyenne hawk machine

Posted by Omar on 09/26/09


I recently spoke to a dude that was bitching about them. And told me that for a while Hawk was out of needles because they had problems with the company that makes them.
I actually held one and run it with a small tattoo. That machine is just a rotary but with a lot more disadvantages. You are strapped to the grip size they sell the machine with, you are strapped to their needle, the machine is over price and it feel like a cheep plastic dildo. "yes! I held a dildo before" !


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RE:Cheyenne hawk machine

Posted by mjollnir9 on 09/26/09


That is pretty much what I had figured, omar. I actually laughed a little bit when I looked at the website. If I were going to drastically change my equipment, I would try a pnuema, but I am happy with my Soba Pilot, Cifferi classic shader, and my countless rebuilds!


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RE:Cheyenne hawk machine

Posted by mephistus on 09/26/09


my boss owns the hawk and he loves it. It is damn near dead silent and he is finishing pieces in record time without losing quality.I agree though, It is a big change to make.


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RE:Cheyenne hawk machine

Posted by Bahryan on 09/26/09


the good thing is you only need one machine,the needle tips are changed in like 2 seconds,and i just use the grip covers so it makes it whatever size you like.but ive had it for 8 months and ive only tattooed with it about 15 times,i love using it,but i feel weird not using coils,so 95% of the time im running coils(infinite,next gen,m sharpz)and i never line with the hawk.but honestly,if i didnt feal un loyal to coils,id shade and color everything with it.have you seen the stuff Roman, or Cecil porter, and lots others have been doin with it?


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RE:Cheyenne hawk machine

Posted by Omar on 09/27/09


The day that the Hawk makes needle available at 30 bucks a 50/ box i will consider the machine. Still freaked out about the way it performs and its monopoly. Sorry Freedom is better of choosing supplies is better than being ruled by one company,


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RE:Cheyenne hawk machine

Posted by Markus on 10/05/09


Alright this is onna sound like a sales pitch, it is not intended as one but more of a review.

i actually had to put a foot into my mouth with this one... I was heavily against this product until i actually used it. i am not using anything else for 3 months now... I tattoo faster and things heal better, my line work has improved greatly and i am not left with any frustrations yet.

The price of the needles is reasonable and i have no problem with the monopoly for they made a very nice product and might as well rake in the money as long as it takes for china to come with the copies.

Since i tried a couple of different rotaries by now,
Here is what i really think.

My work does not look any different at all.
function wise it is "just" a rotary. No fanciness in the pure technique whatsoever. Which after all is good i guess. Every device i tried that had any added features like "give" also had to add movable parts which added wear and tear and got frustrating after a while.

This machine does not vibrate, is virtually not making any sound and does not need any maintenance like oil or whatever.

Many rotaries, esp, when used with disposable tubes feed inks back up the tube a lot. Due to the perfect 50% Duty Cycle the ink may either flow up or down. The hawk cartridges are hermetically closed with rubber tubing which at the same time provides the spring so it can never stop with the needle out which is another common rotary problem. So 3 of the most common very annoying rotary problems are lifted on the hawk.
vibration
ink contamination of the machine
needle exposure on "off"

Another cool thing that is a great side effect of the cartridge system is that i can have 6 different machines on my workstation while only having to setup one (!) machine and only occupying the space of one machine.

Changing cartridges goes even quicker than changing clip cords.
Setting up the machine doesn't require any needlebending, rubberband arranging, grommet macgyvering, needle guidance dexterity and machine bag/tube/grip cover equation figure outing.

its simply dragging the clip-cord cover all the way over the grip of the machine and slip a grip cover over it... done. 1 minute setup. Does the same thing every time, no changing factors like rubber bands, grips or needle-bar bending angle... i love this. And i t make sit well worth the extra expense to have 80% less setup and breakdown time.

Whenever i find out that i might like a 9 magnum in this tattoo and i only put out a 17 and a 7 round i don't have to cut corners but i simply grab a 9 mag cartridge and go on working...

breakdown consists of throwing out the cartridges and wiping down the grip with alcohol. The grip is wrapped and doesn't touch anything contaminated it can be autoclaved anyways but i don't do it every time. It is not a thread or weak spot in the setup when wrapped well and the cartridges are used right.

All things considered, it is still a die hard rotary and can only really do one thing. needle in, and out. You can fuck up stuff really nicely with it.
If you suck with coils this wont make you better... it will probably make things worse. If you are comfortable with coils but find it cumbersome and frustrating, than this is probably something to think about.
Adjusting to this was pretty easy for me since i was used to many different machines and adjusting for them not working properly anyways.
Not having any springy "give" in the machine setup is not a problem since the skin is pretty bouncy by itself. I simply stretch less hard and let the skin do the work instead of a spring.
Nice side effect of this is less work on BOTH hands which, with my puny girly wrists, this is huge plus.

if i sound like i get payed for doing this, i am not. i am simply a very happy convert. Like i s said i was pretty skeptical towards any rotary and also very outspoken about this but i hereby put a big foot in my mouth because it does work. I do lines, black and gray and color (fading, gradations, mixing, layering and solid) with this machine...

The needles are great (bug-pins) and have not given me any trouble so far. the range of needles is limited. The smallest mag is a 9 (bug-pins so its closer to a normal 7) the biggest is 17 (equivalent to a 15) so far. The curved ones are nicely curved and not uselessly curved. very usable. The rounds are also bug-pins and therefore very small. I don't use anything smaller than the 7 liner which works more like a tight 5 the biggest round is the 7 shader which looks like a 5 shader. I hardly use anything bigger anyways so i am fine with that. they are coming out with a 25 mag and bigger liners though. looking promising...

I used stigma rotaries before and they are nice, too, but are subject to a lot of wear and tear due to heavy movable parts and the sheer number of moving parts which cause a lot of weak points for wiggle, vibration and inconsistency. Constant oiling, and heavy vibration when using disposables made me depart with those. Good transitional machines and the swash drives are nice but i am only using hawk right now and it doesnt look like its going anywhere anytime.

If anyone considers buying one btw, i can;t hurt to tell them i wrote a review on here... i wouldn't mind getting free swag, lol.


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RE:Cheyenne hawk machine

Posted by Omar on 10/06/09


Let's talk again in a year from now :)
This sounds like a story we all heard before a couple of years ago.

Did you purchase the machine or they gave it to you? Just curious.


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RE:Cheyenne hawk machine

Posted by Markus on 10/07/09


i bought it after trying one from a friend.
I am not one to praise shit before i properly convinced myself of validity.
I feel like i have a certain responsebility to do so since a lot of people seem interested in my work and respect my input. Thats also why i try to be thorough with what i say. But you are welcome to ask me again in a year. I know people who use it for a year. And there are drawbacks but mainly in peripheral things like needle supply or durability of the clipcords. Which is solvable and not comparable to the frustrations my coils caused me in the years before.

However i am convinced that everybody should learn tattooing with coil machines for at least 4-6 years before switching to a rotary based system.
I think it's important to know the difference and a coil reveals more feedback which lets you learn about skin a lot better than a rotary. Plus you learn more with a system that has more factors to take into account. Steeper learning curve with less chance of chewing people up.

As i said it takes n advanced tattooer to handle a rotary properly but once you are there it is very luxurious to not have to consider all the shit that comes with a coil setup.


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RE:Cheyenne hawk machine

Posted by Markus on 10/07/09


i gotta add that i am not a person to advertise a product for money. If it works it gets praise if not it gets a bad review. You can't pay me to lie.
So far honesty has payed of very nicely.


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RE:Cheyenne hawk machine

Posted by susan on 10/07/09


hi
you are markus lenhard from luxaltera?


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RE:Cheyenne hawk machine

Posted by Markus on 10/07/09


that is correct


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RE:Cheyenne hawk machine

Posted by brian on 10/08/09


surprise that you use the hawk.
i try them from 4 months but i feel to mutch drag with this machine.
to avoid this i have to work with very little needle outside(dime)
other way i feel to much drag because the machine speed.

other thing i notice is in sensitive skin,the machine is faster so i have to work very carefull.

about the needles,i normaly dont use bug pins because is hard to get the skin,for me is more easy with a #12 lt
but i like the hawk 17 mag ,the 9 mag i use very litle because i love to work with round mags
get good lines with the hawk is a chanlenge for me,i still us emy coils to make lines


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RE:Cheyenne hawk machine

Posted by Markus on 10/08/09


if you have drag or run-off your needles are too far exposed AND/OR ypu are stretching too hard. there is no question that this machine works different than coils. if you want to use it like a coil machine you will run into these kind of troubles. however there is no need to tattoo of the tip with this either. I dont bury the needles to the tip but let the skin do the bouncing. doesnt work in tight spots orvery fluffy ones but those areas will give you trouble with any kind of setup


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RE:Cheyenne hawk machine

Posted by brian on 10/08/09


i always here that the use of texture needles like eikon put the ink more faster.
do you said that you´re faster now with bug pins?do you mean that you can put the solid color more faster or you are faster in some kind of blending work?



*i talk with the guy that made the hawk machine and he said that the needles in mags is not 0.30 is a 0.35 is a catalogue mistake


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RE:Cheyenne hawk machine

Posted by Markus on 10/09/09


textured... bugpins...

the machine, handmotion/stretch and ink are a way (!) more important factors to consider with putting in ink fast than the needle... every needle puts in color. It depends on how you use them. The bugpins will definately let you do more passes with less trauma. Stuff heals better and you have a bigger range for misjudging what the skin can take. with textured needles or shorttapers you can skid over the line easily without noticing. stuff definately heals better and brighter with longtapers is my experience.
And thats the only reason i make needlechoices.
How much noodling do i do and does the needle allow for as many passes as i want or need.
a 13 mag with #12 needles is as big as a 15 bugpin mag. So the bugpins will require more force to put into the skin. With a rotary that doesnt matter. there is ample force behind the grouping.
Thats why it works well on this machine... Plus the gradations look a lot smoother IMO


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RE:Cheyenne hawk machine

Posted by brian on 10/11/09


after read your message i check out the hawk needles and like i was thougth mine are polished not textured,im gonna talk to my supplier and ask him about textured.
my opinion about the hawk is that is need a lot of force with the needles,because the weigth of the machine,the spread of the needles ,and like you mencioned before the bug pins take more needles in the tip.
so we need more voltage,more voltage in this kind of machine give us more speed and we saturate very fast the skin...

in my opinion this machine is better for a king of very smooth and with very blending work tattoos or b&g.
for solid work with some detail i prefer my coil´s.with the hawk i have to make very small and slow movements or i have to mutch trauma.

this hawk got a 50% thats another factor that make me dislake them,carson hill talk about the new neuma with 60% or the stigma with 60% too.
i like to try the stigma but after ear you talk maybe im gonna buy the neuma.

with this kind of machines i think is possible in a near future make something with 70% or 75% d.c give as the chance to go make better gradations with less trauma


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RE:Cheyenne hawk machine

Posted by lucky devil on 10/19/09


thats rigth bro
hawk needles is #12 not #10 like markus said


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RE:Cheyenne hawk machine

Posted by sarah on 10/27/09


markus is a great tattooist he knows what he talk


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RE:Cheyenne hawk machine

Posted by Markus on 10/27/09


well thx but i am wrong all the time and well known to talk before thinking. Please remain critical. Not sure about the size of the needles. i have not said anything about #10 though... not sure where you got that.
They are bugpins is what i said. but #12 are no bugpins...


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