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question about springs for the last time??

Posted by paul@inkgallery on 12/20/08


I just got a new tattoo macine...something handmade by one of my friends that works out of VA...I dont really care for the springs he put on (handmade but not well made)...I just wondering what would be good the best springs to put on a liner,,,brass frame...8 wraps...


IM thinking eikon maybe 18 on the front...20 on the rear

hit me up guys



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RE:question about springs for the last time??

Posted by Shaun Bonanos on 12/21/08


All depends on how you want your liner to run? What type of needles do you use?
Does the frame geometry suggest that it's a cutback? The springs gauge, width, length and tension all play a factor and there isn't really a one size fits all in terms of how a liner should run... best bet is to get a load of springs of different gauges and start cutting and bending away and trying them out until you get the machine running the way you want. Invest in some strips of spring steel and you'll have hours of fun cutting away (a spring punch is a bonus too), buzzing up, disassembling and doing it all again, sooner or later you'll start to get a feel for what is working for you and complementing the machine and the way you want it to run.
For me this has been the best way to learn, hours of messing about, getting frustrated and doing it all again but ah the feeling when you get it running how you want.. priceless, :)


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RE:question about springs for the last time??

Posted by Fallen King Irons on 12/21/08


This is how my machines ship out.

18 top / 20 back for shaders
20 top / 18 Back liners (conventional or cutback)


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RE:question about springs for the last time??

Posted by Fallen King Irons on 12/21/08


oh forgot and I use only Eikon springs.
Length and width of spring has a lot to do as well.
I don't use wide bottom springs for example.


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RE:question about springs for the last time??

Posted by paul@inkgallery on 12/22/08


good info...good feedback

FK..I haven't forgotten about you my man...Im going to get at least two from you...just kinda hecked time of the year with christmas and birthdays all at once...you know how it is

and yea...I was thinking about buying the spring kit with eikon...those dark blue finishes would look fresh with the frame of the machine


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RE:question about springs for the last time??

Posted by Jerrett on 12/23/08


It seems a little strange to me to have say a 20 on the back for a shader. Although it works very well set up that way on the FK iron shader I got. I was suprised to see a 20 on the back of that machine but it runs flawless! No complaints! I've always been taught, it theory, that the rear spring controls speed and front controls power...for the most part. So in my mind setting up a shader with a 20 and a liner with an 18 seems backwards but the machine set up is great! I would be interested to hear other peoples theories on front-rear spring setups.


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RE:question about springs for the last time??

Posted by travelingtom on 12/24/08


the rear spring is the spring (from what i was taught) that basically controls how hard it hits. i mean a stiff rear spring will still ,make your machine run a little faster, but the stiffer it is, the harder the coils have to work to pull the a-bar down, resulting in a softer hiting machine. the front spring being stiff allows it to run faster, because if you use a thick spring, then it wont commpress as much on the contac point on the up stroke(if that sounds right).because,after all, it's a spring, and the thicker it is, the less give it has. ok i use a thin rear spring and a medium front spring for my color, because i want a slower running machine that hits hard, to pack in some of my thicker pigments.i use a 20 in the front and 18 in the back for my shader, because i like it to run faster but still have some bite, so i dont have to go over the same area a lot.and the same for my liner. i would suggest buying a spring kit and fucking around with it, that helped me out a lot, so did the eikon-300 ems.
just my two cents


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RE:question about springs for the last time??

Posted by byron on 12/29/08


"stiff rear spring will still ,make your machine run a little faster, but the stiffer it is, the harder the coils have to work to pull the a-bar down, resulting in a softer hiting machine"

i was taught that the harder the back spring result in powerfull hit
the coils have to work harder so need more voltage ,more powerful stroke


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RE:question about springs for the last time??

Posted by travelingtom on 12/29/08


yes, more voltage, but only if your stroke is mid to long, and a long stroke with stiff springs will chew up the skin.my shader is a small gap, with an 18 guage. runs 130-140hrz loaded @ 6.0 volts. but that is just me.


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RE:question about springs for the last time??

Posted by Fallen King Irons on 12/29/08


The thickness of the rear spring is not all. How much you bend your spring will determine your Duty Cycle. The more you bend the spring the higher is your cycle.
You can achieve the same cycle with different springs by how much you bend them.

I use 20 rear 18 top in shaders and 18 read and 20 top in liners. Never had a single complain
Softer top spring will give you that nice "give" when the armature retracts against the contact screw. Now 20 will do the opposite less give and send the a-bar right back to the coil cores without hesitation.


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RE:question about springs for the last time??

Posted by byron on 12/29/08


fallen king :do you use a 20 front in liners because you wont the liners with less give(less duty)?and with this less impact to the skin?

i think the give is related to compression (duty cycle)
the less the front spring bend the less give we got,correct me if im wrong.

i never use a shader more faster than 115hz,whats the duty cycle you use with a 140hz?i supose its a higher one or the skin become hamburger




carson hill have a topic in neuma forum when he said that the new neuma hibrid bring a 60% duty and with this be diferent of the old neuma and the rotarys.
the new neuma bring less skin damage
he said that is very dificult to make lines with old neumas and rotarys because they have a 50% duty


like to hear your opinion


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RE:question about springs for the last time??

Posted by travelingtom on 12/30/08


fk, i dont bend my springs, i use the true-spring set up from eikon, so i dont have too.


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RE:question about springs for the last time??

Posted by clever thoughts from IP: 24.45.237.97 on 05/23/11
, ny United States - website


Sorry to bring this back to the top guys but no one comes here realy anyway and its not a big deal so just skip old topics if you dont like them coming back. It is better for new people to see them who cares about the old people , forum is for all people ha ha.

Anyway , I just wanted to say i agree with Gaston on the springs. Back spring controls duty cycle not the hit or speed. Front spring controls the speed of the machine. Now the back spring may add a Little speed like a few cps but nothing compared to the front spring. To me the voltage controls the hit. I know people do it how they like and learn many ways but still Gaston is correct.

Gaston is a top builder so he knows what he is talking about and i recomend his machines to anyone who has not bought one yet. Super cool guy who answers questions with details and hides nothing. Machines run consistent and flawless. A+ Machines


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