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Nick Baxter Discussion Board
| Negative/Positive self-fulfilling prophecy in tattoos |
Posted by Pyrrhus Darwin Castello on 11/16/07
This is still a topic that I think need to be discussed. Here is what was said previously in another topic. (drugs)
In there we discussed about the Negative/Positive self-fulfilling prophecy in tattoos. Or in tattoo themes. Shortly the point in there was (that I tried to make) that people who want to change the world to better, be it by fighting for animal rights or maybe relating to this topic, being straight edge, get tattoos that show the things that they try to CHANGE. So if they want animals to run free on fields and not to be in labratorys, they usually dont get tattoos with animals running free, but trapped. Or in the straight edge example, they might get a character that is overtly trashed and drunk etc, and not a dude that is in good health and looks good. Why is that? I know they want to show how things are, but tattoos are FOR EVER, so they are stuck with that negativity that they try to change, FOR EVER. To me thats pretty ironic.
So my first starting question is. Do you people (artists mainly) think that it could be a time to start changing little by little the old "rule" customer is allways right?
I think if we are trying to better ourselfs as humans, to find a new outlook on things, this could be one key that hold us back. And I am talking just about in tattoo world. Because of course we cant tackle all the things, so lets focus on the part that touches us all.
This would be really hard to do in normal street shop enviroments, where people come in, come in and go out...I think that its mainly related to the time when tattooing was just a meal ticket to 99% of people. That was the time when customer WAS allways right (of course there are expectations, like, "I want that eagle to be pink!" No, you cant have it etc). But when we are talking about custom tattooing (like you do Nick), then there could be something "more". And I am not talking about selling your ideal´s to other people, but offering them another side to things. I think this article in www.offthemaptattoo.com site is a good way to look at things.
Subject Matter and Projecting Energy
Another thing to contemplate, especially for larger custom tattoos, is the 'energy' that the tattoo will express, or the message that it will convey. This may sound a little cheesy, but it's still worth noting that the subject matter of your tattoos will project a certain 'vibe' about you into the world, especially to any up-close viewers of your tattoos. Just like a painting is meant to affect the viewer, your tattoos will affect their viewer, even though you may have gotten them solely for yourself. Images of death and destruction are very powerful, as are those of beauty, but the former may lead other people to stereotype you in a potentially worse way than the latter. Therefore, give proper thought to the images you choose to adorn your body with for the rest of your life, and be sure that you can live with any foreseeable consequences. In no way are we attempting to reinforce or justify unfair social stereotypes of certain tattooed people by mentioning this, but you should be aware of the social conditions that you live in, to determine what you do or do not want to deal with.
Naturally it doesnt mean that a person is good or bad or anything like that because he gets a horror tattoo and they can work positively too. But still, where does the urge to have negative looking images or themes tattooed on yourself come from, even if the person doesnt want the negativity?
Shit, could it be that it REALLY would be the time for artists to start saying "You are not right"?
For example. If a tattoo artist is religious, I dont think they will tattoo a pentagram on people. If Nick Baxter tries to live the "Positive self-fulfilling prophecy" life, why should he tattoo negative things on people?
This is just a starting point. Its hard to think these things out just by yourself if you dont get any feedback. So please, give some :)
ps. I may have over simplified some points, but If I would consider every point, this would be still on the workd tomorrow. And maybe I shouldnt do that, because not all customers are right ;) |
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| RE:Negative/Positive self-fulfilling prophecy in tattoos |
Posted by mdellaselva on 11/16/07
I think that it's possible that they attach negative things to themselves because it speaks much louder and sticks to the viewers mind a lot better. If you see a bunch of flowers and happy animals, i think cool, i go for hikes regularly and see it all the time, it's great. But if I see someone with animals being slaughtered tattood on their arm it's shocking and it sticks out, and it also provokes thought, like yea, wow, this does happen everyday and we're supposed to be cool with it?
I also think it could be a reminder to the now straightedge kid who used to be that drunk, and not to make decisions that would put him back in the path of substance abuse.
People react and think a lot more about horrific and shocking images. Tattoos tend to have that effect on most people anyway, and sometimes that's why people might decide to get a tattoo in the first place. It might not be the only reason, but i think it applies to some cases. |
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| RE:Negative/Positive self-fulfilling prophecy in tattoos |
Posted by joe p on 11/16/07
i am a big believer in the "customer is not always right" policy. mainly with attitude problems and untattooable designes. i tell people right away what i can or cant do with their designe. thats it.i will be the first to tell someone who is being disrespectful to check their attitude and remember that i am the one doing them a favor. the only real times this becomes an issue is with the just turned 16 spoiled brats who have their moms signing for them. they will sit there and talk shit to their moms. being completely disrespectful to their own parents. and the kicker is the mom is just sitting there acting like nothings wrong. then when they think im as much as a pushover as their mom and try to throw that shit at me..well you get the picture. if they are grown up enough to get a tattoo, they are grown up enough to learn a life lesson in respect. i dont go looking for problems. i love the joy that comes with being a tattoo artist. maybe that is why im so quick to snap at someone when they think they can treat me like a highschooler working at mcdonalds. im not telling anyone how to treat people..but dealing with ignorant people once and a while is the only real downside to this job. -joe p |
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| RE:Negative/Positive self-fulfilling prophecy in tattoos |
Posted by Pyrrhus Darwin Castello on 11/17/07
But if I see someone with animals being slaughtered tattood on their arm it's shocking and it sticks out, and it also provokes thought, like yea, wow, this does happen everyday and we're supposed to be cool with it?
That is propably one of the main reason, at least I would think so. But then I would like to think it further. Lets take a highly hypotetical situation. 10years from now things are to the point where animals arent being tested and they run free. But still there are people who have tattoos of animals in labs and such. Then someone sees them and they might think or say
Hey! Thats not cool man. Are you sick in the head or something?!?. We worked really hard to get animals out of the labs and now you are here sporting tattoos of them IN THE LABS!!
If you get the point? If we are striving for a CHANGE, then wouldnt it be better to tattoo the GOALS that you are trying to achieve on you and not the place you dont want the things to stay in?. Because, as was said, tattoos are FOREVER. |
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| RE:Negative/Positive self-fulfilling prophecy in tattoos |
Posted by joe p on 11/17/07
dont you think opening peoples eyes to the true nature of the cruelty animals have to endure , aka, a provocative almost disgusting tattoo depicting the things the people in the labs dont want you to see, will achieve a much better understanding of what needs to be changed to the average person on the street who happens to see the tattoo? And if that, among other things, is what helps stop animal cruelty even after the goals are achieved the wearer of the tattoo will have a sense of pride explaining the meaning behind the artwork, and the pride in their involvement. -joe p |
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| RE:Negative/Positive self-fulfilling prophecy in tattoos |
Posted by Pyrrhus Darwin Castello on 11/17/07
Of course its really good, but I just dont want people to become some martyrs because of it. And I do think its possible to get people thinking with out getting negativity on your bodies forever. I just try to look past that what we have now and maybe try to vision the things that we want to have.
Of course its hard to talk about these kinda things because you can have 10 similar tattoos and 10 different explanations... As you said, some people may feel pride. But there are people who do it because they might feel generally bad about this world, or themself, so they might get negative things on there bodies so they THEMSELF can have the comfort and attention.
As I explained about my own experiences, is that when I was worried about EVERYTHING all the time, I was misarable about things that didnt even have to have an effect in to my life. I remeber the ideas for tattoos that I had back then and they all were in someways related to negativity/being "better than the other people" etc. I would explain them to people and try to get them to agree and what not.
I just couldnt anymore look at the negativity that I see in the world at my own body too. That would be just too much. I dont want to make myself part of it, I can and try to make things better, but I dont want to "be" it.
I mean, why cant you have the same idea, but do it positively? Because for example. If you hate religion and you get a decapitated jesus or something in your arm, then you are giving out to the world the same negativity that you might detest in religion. I just dont see the popint of it. If people take those tattoos so they can set themself a part of those people, well, then they still will be (and maybe even more than before) part of that same stuff. Because now the thoughts that you had about the subject are in full view for other people to see. And if you want to be away from the negativity of religion, then I am shure that you will get a lot more negativity from people and you have to propably deal with people even more than before. People who you want to set yourself a part from. |
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| RE:Negative/Positive self-fulfilling prophecy in tattoos |
Posted by joe p on 11/17/07
i agree. there is almost never a need to be negative to get your point across. but...by depicting negative things in relation to something you strongly believe in, you will in turn present your exact emotions to the ones you hope will see the peice. not all of our emotions are positive. and for good reason. sometimes you have to literally shout in someones face just to get important things through to them. some people are incapable of understanding things on a common sense level. whether they are too blinded by greed, or whatever profit they see to gain by doing said "bad thing". i once saw an anti abortion sign that displayed an actual fetus leftover from an abortion. im not going to take a side on this topic...but i guarantee that billboard left a lasting impression on some people who would have never given it thought otherwise. that is where i see these extremely graphic tattoos heading. they are the side of a subject that noone givs any real thought. the stuff people dont want to know about. but if they ever found out they would have a moral obligation to pick a side. and you are completely right..negativity is not a healthy answer, but given the events and status of our society, sometimes we have to fight fire with fire to get anything accomplished. -joe p |
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| RE:Negative/Positive self-fulfilling prophecy in tattoos |
Posted by Pyrrhus Darwin Castello on 11/18/07
That is true that a shock can be the only answer in some cases, but I think that could be achieved with a T-shirt or similar. And I used to think that fighting fire with fire was the answer, but I have found out that people do that, and think about that, because they are scared. When ever I am worried about my mom and I leave her house, I find myself of thinking about brutal things. Like we would be walking in the streets and some drunk would try to hurt my mom, then I think how I kick hiss ass. And I am doing that because I feel helpless about my mom so I have to generate a situation where I "save" her. But its all based on fear. I react like that because I am scared. And if you want to get things changed, I dont think its a good thing to get people scared. And Im talking about not that much about the general population, but for example the people who do those tests to animals. They are humans too.
You have countles of demonstrations that turn violent, how many of them are thought about positively? Then you have something like the monks demonstrating just resently, that caused an uproar. And could it be because we view monks as peacefull people who dont want to harm anybody?
Ok, that went to a off topic, but I hope you got the point I was trying to make in the case "fighting fire with fire". |
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